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questioning
our root assumption
(2)
…are rejecting the noblest
gift of God to humanity. are demons in fact :) how strange to find this article on the YOU’s GroupMind Discussion today! for I’ve been beginning this week, just beginning, in my looong search for the Root Cause of the Planet’s Problem today, to seriously contemplate launching a Full Frontal Assault on the entire Greco-Roman-Christian-European-British-American Culture Thread. for the reason we can terrorise, abuse and plain slaughter more people of planet earth than all the tyrants in history put together YET REMAIN CONVINCED WE ARE THE NICE CIVILISED GUYS might be the inbuilt (essentially unquestioned) assumption in each and every one of us in what we even call “The Civilised World,” at the very base of everything we do and think, is that the Only Real, Actual Civilisation on the planet came down to the modern world through that single thread. (and i believe that every secret spiritual tradition that speaks of this world being run by a False God, means exactly this) [note, possibly for the first time in your life, that this view of history entirely ignores and excludes the vast majority of the planet’s population OVER THE LAST 3000 YEARS! during the vast majority of which ‘we’ were actually in an extremely miserable, technically limited, superstitious and ignorant state! in which I definitely include the whole Christian period until the last 50 ears and I’m actually not even sure about that when i see how we’re still behaving towards almost all peoples still outside our ‘civilisation’. I mean horrible almost daily instances of killing 500 iraqis like rabid dogs and lamenting the deaths of 20 dead westerners] [and during those nearly 2 dark, repressed, demon-filled millennia, several other cultures were hitting peak states aztec, moorish, chinese, asian, etc. viewed from OUTSIDE our bubble, we don’t look very good at all.] but, brothers and sisters, it’s a Gigantic Task, no question about it. even those who are 90% in agreement with most of what I say might hesitate before the final step, a step outside into the Unknown. for the assumption that follows from any threat to the first assumption is that Pan-ic will be unleashed, we’ll be morally cut adrift, we could end up abandoned “Out There” among the savages! with no true cultural civilised compass to lead us back to, if not Heaven, then at least a rational decent civilisation where people won’t be trying to do us in all the time! [and which we assume is a) here and b] nowhere else, not really. i’ve found the opposite in my travels, most people are not trying to rip each other off the way we are taught is good puritan work ethic and where our children fight over brand names] it will involve explorations of what “civilisation” actually means, with quite a bit of freudian probings beneath our deeply institutionalised "bonton" vanities (ref Gurdjieff below) questions like: in a civilised society would people tend to obey authority or think independently? in a civilised society would people cross the street to help somebody in trouble? and, perhaps most of all, how would they treat neighbouring peoples, with the same respect or with much less? it will involve questioning whether true morality is based in culture or in hard wiring self-activated by personal inner hard work and hence culture-free - now THAT is a HUGE one! it implies, at the very least, that an afghani mountain man could be more ‘moral’ or ‘civilised’ than the average western consumer (let alone soldier). is ‘more moral‘ 'more civilised’? or is technology an essential part of developed culture? the answer to that id a resounding NO, but u c the complexity of it all?! none of which we EVER stop (stoop?) to question. the essential argument, however, is clear enough. if our Root Assumption is almost entirely without justification in the real world (and I honestly believe it is and have so believed for 40 years since I first read george gurdjieff’s analysis], then our very belief in it makes each one of us, as the article above puts it, “subversive agents of world revolution” - any ‘civilisation’ we create or ‘spread’ will, by definition, threaten planetary stability, and will undervalue and eventually demonise, attack and destroy other cultures FOR THEIR OWN GOOD! monotheism, if you like. if u take nothing away from this short introduction to such a Gigantic Topic, note these 2 scientific observations: 1. all this could be true even though we personally might never have ever really once properly glimpsed it. 2. people outside our culture might know this in their very bones, and we would never have even once glimpsed that. the battle today is truly for men’s’ minds, this is for sure. and each of us is already possessed (daily rooted deeper by our official media) of, in Gurdjieff's words, "an ideally well-working automatism" to keep our perception of reality in line. here’s the tiniest taster of gurdjieff, from the preface to his All and Everything. A WARNING: I promise you will get NOTHING out of it unless you are able to temporarily assume he has Great Wisdom to tell you. only in such a suitably humble and open emotional state, will you be able to allow him every indulgence :) and i pray to the Great Spirit that, if this tiny taste of Gurdjieff alienates and irritates anyone so much that they are put off reaching to him at some later, more conscious date, to have pity on someone who was HOPING to bring about some Good. up! questioning
our root assumption
(3)
an uncultured word from
an-ignoramus-on-the-zigzag-plane-squaredMy dear, highly honoured and very patient Sirs, and my highly respected, charming, and of course "in-nowise-hysterical" Ladies! I have the honour to inform you that although, with the help of my patron saints and by the permission of the local authorities, and also of course of my "merciless-domestic-tyrant" (a Personality that is inevitably present in every contemporary householder who has automatically acquired power owing solely to the abnormally established conditions of contemporary ordinary life) I am now about to write books, nevertheless, not only have I never written either books or various "informative-articles", but also never even a letter in which the rules of what is called "bonton-grammaticality", prevalent in contemporary civilisation, should be observed. And having, in consequence, no practice at all in "automatic-twaddle", therefore although I have now to become a writer, I am now, in respect of all the accepted rules and procedures of professional writers and also in respect of what is called the "literary-language-of-the-intelligentsia" a complete "booby", or as certain contemporary so-styled "well-read" people would call me, "an-ignoramus-on-the-zigzag-plane-squared" - in consequence of all which, I am not going to write at all like the "Patented-professional-writers", to whose form of writing you are undoubtedly already well accustomed. And I must add that in you also, of course, an ideally well-working automatism has already been acquired and permanently fixed for perceiving as well as for "digesting", thanks to which "blessing" no individual effort whatsoever is ever required of you. >> all that was actually a single paragraph and a single sentence, designed to overpower the normal brain automatism. i have simplified it. do not overlook that last remark which I would interpret thus: Nature does not require you to be Conscious, only to continue ‘thinking’ constantly in your already acquired manner :) I particularly warn you about the latter, namely, what I have called the "literary-language-of-the-intelligentsia". Concerning this language it must be said that although I too was taught it in my childhood, and some of my elders who were preparing me for responsible life even constantly compelled me to "learn-by-rote" the multitude of various nuances which compose this "contemporary-delight", yet unfortunately - for you, obviously - nothing of all I then learnt by rote stuck, and nothing now survives for my writing activities. And according to the very minute investigations and elucidations of a meteorologist very well known at the present time on the continent of Europe, with whom I chanced to become what is called "bosom-friends" owing to frequent meetings in the nocturnal restaurants of Montmartre, it was not assimilated for the reason that, even in my childhood, my instinct already contained a certain, as he defined it, "something" which did not permit my Being to absorb this contemporary high-wisdom, and also because, owing to various fortuitous surrounding conditions of my later life, I neither automatically nor semi-consciously, nor even at times, I confess, on principle, that is to say, consciously, employed that language for intercourse with others. As a result of all this, esteemed reader of my writings, though I now intend to become a professional writer, yet having, as you see, none of the mentioned "automatic-experience" for it, I am already willy-nilly compelled to disregard - and if you like, I again confess, I will even, as if intentionally disregard - that language, and write in the ordinary simple everyday language established by life, without any so-to say "grammarian-wiseacreings". So, before embarking on the reading of my further "wiseacreings", first reflect seriously, and only then undertake it. Maybe your hearing and other perceptive organs are already so thoroughly automatised to the "literary-language-of-the-intelligentsia", that the reading of these writings of mine might affect you frightfully cacophonously, as a result of which you might lose your....you know what?.... your relish for your favourite dish. I consider it my duty to say that, thanks to oft-repeated past experiences, I am already quite as convinced with my whole being of this possibility ensuing from my language or rather from the form of my mentation, as a "thorough-bred-donkey" is convinced of the right and justice of his obstinacy. In all probability you are now thinking that, as a novice in writing, I am obviously trying to be eccentric, in the hope of becoming famous and thereby rich. And of course you also think that I am a young man with a pleasing exterior and, as some express it, "suspicious-interior". If you indeed think so, then you are mightily mistaken. First of all, I am not young. I’ve already lived so much that I have been through even more than one mill in my life; secondly, I am not trying to be eccentric, nor do I intend to make my career or to plant myself in this profession - a profession which, in my opinion, provides many opportunities for candidates d.i.r.e.c.t.....for "Hell", assuming of course that such people can in general by their Being perfect themselves even to that extent - for the reason that, knowing nothing whatsoever themselves, they write all kinds of "claptrap", and acquiring authority thereby, they become, of course unconsciously, what are called "automatically-working-factors" for the diminution of the without this already sufficiently diminished psyche of modern man around them. up! %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
The Second Coming of MORE THAN 1000 CONFIRMED DEAD IN PORT AU PRINCE ALONE, DELEGATION REPORTS Thank you Fraser, Haiti is off the mainstream media radar, but we can't forget them. Thank you! Johanna Harman, London %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% questioning our root assumption (4) Columbus and Vasco da Gama by Vandana Shiva, physicist and philosopher Our struggle is against all forms of colonisation! On 17TH APRIL, 1492, Queen Isabel and King Ferdinand granted Christopher Columbus the privileges of "discovery and conquest". One year later, Pope Alexander VI through his "Bull of Donation" granted all islands and mainlands "discovered and to be discovered” and already not occupied or held by any Christian king or prince as of Christmas of 1492, to the Catholic monarchs, Isabel of Castille and Ferdinand of Aragon. >> did u ever hear such bull!!? "The Pope as the victor of God commanded the world, as if it Were a tool in his hands; the Pope, supported by the canonists, considered the world as his property to be disposed according to his will." Walter Ullmann, Medieval Papalism. Acts of piracy were thus transformed into divine will by charters and patents. The peoples and nations which were colonised did not belong to the Pope who thus "donated" them. However, this canonical jurisprudence made the Christian monarchs of Europe rulers of all nations, "wherever they might be found and whatever creed they might embrace." The Papal Bull, the Columbus charter, and the Charter-Patents granted by European monarchs laid the juridical and moral foundations for the colonisation and extermination of non-European peoples. The Native North American population declined from 72 million in 1492 to under 4 million in a few centuries. Effective Occupation so what’s new? The principle of "effective occupation" by Christian princes, the alleged "vacancy" of the targeted lands, the "duty" to incorporate the "savages" into civilisation were key components of the Charter-Patents. Wherever they might be found, whatever knowledge they might embody, patents and intellectual property rights (IPRs) today are no different from those issued by European monarchs to merchants of their era. FIVE HUNDRED YEARS after Columbus, a more secular version of the same project of colonisation continues through patents. The Papal Bull has been replaced by the GATT Treaty. The principle of effective occupation by Christian princes has been replaced by "effective occupation" by modern-day rulers, the transnational corporations. The “vacancy of targeted lands” has been replaced by "the vacancy of targeted life-forms" and species manipulated by the new biotechnologies. The duty to incorporate savages into Christianity has been replaced by the duty to incorporate local and national economies into the global marketplace. The creation of property through the piracy of others' wealth remains the same as it was 500 years ago. The freedom transnational corporations claim through intellectual property rights protection in the GATT agreement on Trade Related Intellectual Property rights (TRIPs) is the freedom European colonisers have claimed since 1492 when Columbus set precedence in treating the licence to conquer non-European peoples as a natural right of European men. The land titles issued by the Pope through European kings and queens were the first patents. This violent takeover was rendered "natural" by defining the colonised people as savages, thus denying them their humanity and freedom. >> and we could award ourselves the luxury of believing it was for their own good! what they got in return was “civilisation”! while the churchmen actually perceived these savages being better off dead than living in sin, I kid u not! killing them is one thing, believing you’re helping them by doing so is… surreal? Locke's treatise on property effectually legitimised this same process of theft and robbery. He clearly articulates Capitalism's freedom to build on the freedom to steal, stating that property is created by removing resources from nature through mixing with labour - not physical labour but labour in its “spiritual" form as manifest in the control of capital. According to Locke, only those who own capital have the right to own natural resources; a right that supersedes the common rights of others with prior or local claims. Capital is thus defined as a source of freedom, but one based on the denial of freedom to other life forms, to the land, forests, rivers and biodiversity that capital claims as its own, and to other humans whose rights are based on their labour. The logical closure is this: peasants and tribals who demand the return of their rights and access to resources are regarded as thieves. >> and if they resist or fight back too hard, they get demonised and hunted down like vermin. current demon: el-Sadr. Empty Lands, Empty Life Forms These Eurocentric projections of property and piracy are the bases on which the Intellectual Property Right laws of GATT/WTO (World Trade Organisation) have been framed. When Europeans first colonised the non-European world, they felt it was their duty to "discover and conquer", to "subdue, occupy and possess". The colonies have now been extended to the interior spaces, the "genetic codes" of life-forms from microbes and plants to animals, including humans! John Moore, a cancer patient, had his cell lines patented by his own doctor. A company, Myriad Pharmaceuticals, has patented the cancer gene in women in order to get a monopoly on diagnostics and testing. The cell lines of the Hagahai of Papua New Guinea and the Guami of Panama have been patented by the US Commerce Secretary. The assumption of empty lands, "terra nullus", is now expanded to "empty life," seeds and medicinal plants emptied of the cultural and knowledge imprint of non-Western sciences and cultures. The takeover of native resources during colonisation was justified on the ground that indigenous people do not "improve" their land. "Natives in New England enclose no land, neither have they any settled habitation, nor any tame cattle to improve the land by. So have not other but a Natural Right to those countries. So as, if we leave them sufficient for their use, we may lawfully take the rest." The same logic is now used to appropriate biodiversity wealth from the original owners and innovators by defining their seeds, medicinal plants, medical knowledge into nature, into non-science and treating the tools of genetic engineering as the yardstick of "improvement". Defining Christianity as the only religion, and all other beliefs and cosmologies as primitive, finds its parallel in defining commercialised Western science as the only science, and all other knowledge systems as primitive. 500 years ago it was enough to be a non-Christian culture to lose all claims and rights. Today it’s enough to be a non-Western culture with a distinctive world-view and diverse knowledge systems to lose all claims and rights. The humanity of others was blanked out then, and their intellect is being blanked out now. The BioPiracy Bubble Today patents have a continuity with the patents issued to Columbus, Sir John Cabot, Sir Humphrey Gilbert, Sir Walter Raleigh. The conflicts that have been unleashed by the GATT treaty, by patents on life-forms, by the patenting of indigenous knowledge and by genetic engineering are grounded in processes that can be summarised as the Second Coming of Columbus and Vasco da Gama. At the heart of Columbus' "discovery" was the treatment of piracy as a natural right of the coloniser and necessary for the deliverance of the colonised. >> hence ‘better off dead”, the extreme churchly view. Biopiracy is the Columbian "discovery" 500 years after Columbus patents are still the means to protect this piracy of the wealth of non Western peoples as a right of Western powers. Through patents and genetic engineering, new colonies are being carved out. The land, the forests, the rivers, the oceans, the atmosphere have all been colonised, eroded and polluted. Capital now has to look for new colonies to invade and exploit for its further accumulation. These new colonies are the interior spaces of the bodies of women, plants and animals. Resistance to biopiracy is a resistance to this ultimate colonisation of life itself - of the future of evolution as well as the past and future of non-Western traditions of relating to nature and knowing nature. It is a struggle to protect the freedom of diverse species to evolve; it is a struggle to protect the freedom of diverse cultures to evolve; it is a struggle to conserve both cultural and biological diversity. It is a struggle against new and old forms of colonisation. UP! * * * * * * ASTRAL
ENERGY ANALYSIS FOR WEEK OF APRIL 28 - MAY 4 * * * * *
SPREAD THEM WINGS and FLY INTO THE ACTION-PACKED WEEK AHEAD! The action picks up as Mercury, In charge of communication, turns direct on Friday, and then expansive Jupiter turns direct on the following Tuesday. May Day begins an intense week, climaxing with a total Scorpio Lunar Eclipse, also on Tuesday, May 4. For details, see Maya’s Daily Success Guide at www.daykeeperjournal.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * (\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)
Dear Osama, I accept your offerthe UP! is a global edutainment round-up, broadcast weekly to =[13,003]= Alternative// Activist// Zippy// Trance// New Age folks recommended to the Parallel YOUniversity// Megatripolis Dance Dept as "showing signs of life". Since many recipients choose to forward it or parts of it to their own lists, we conservatively estimate 30,000+ direct recipients. Further, because of its 'mix' of 'specialist' & 'general' content, it's increasingly being posted on a variety of sites worldwide, making an estimated total weekly readership of =[275,000+]= (\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/) WELL, AT LEAST 50 EX-UK AMBASSADORS (AND NOW A BUNCHA FORMER AMERICAN NOBS) ALSO WANT TO ASCCEPT OSAMA’S NOBLE OFFER (MORE OR LESS TROOPS OUR OF ARABIA, JUSTICE FOR THE PALS, THEY’LL COME ROUND TO THE REST WITH TIME AND DEVELOPMENTSDUCK!”) Dear Osama, I accept your offer... Peace in our time! sally woods, wales up! Great stuff! Thanks for quoting me to the whole world, but what are you doing about Blair? I hope you, too, will stand in the street and discourage all to vote for him again. You live in the UK and have the possibility to change the state of things there instead of telling the whole world that they are responsible for their leadership. I would say you need to sweep in front of your own steps first. best wishes. Tamzin, Paris, France >> am already on record as intending to vote Lib Dem unless Blair goes. up! Hi Frase, GREAT! Another rocking UP!! Paz, luz e amor, Chris Vezey, London. up! Interesting comments. but It’s not about an “offer”. >> oh, but it most certainly is!! not a deal but an ultimatum (which is about all the poor bastard have left to offer!). you leave us alone and we’ll stop trying to revenge ourselves on you. Our modern ideals i.e. emancipation, freedom and democracy remain only as ideals. Bin Laden and the mu-jihad-een have no interest in these, although part of the problem is that one could quite easily perceive that the “West” has forgotten these ideals (have we ever realised them in practice?). >> no, since you ask. and, as far as how we treat our non-christian neighbours, we’ve NEVER even attempted to treat them in any way but as pawns. which gives us obesity as our main health worry and them starvation. These ideals don’t sit well with capitalism, ironically. >> strictly speaking they have NOTHING to do with capitalism. the fact that we have them to a fair degree is entirely in the teeth of capitalism and are part of a totally different historic thread which will, inevitably, outlast it. assuming capitalism doesn’t make the planet inhabitable first. Anyway, back at the ranch. Afghanistan is still being run by mullahs who treat their women appallingly. Just last month women were banned (by the “moderate” Interim Authority) from appearing on state television. Women are also banned from singing on Afghan radio: that LAW was passed in January 2004. What kind of idiots are these people! >> women under christianity had to wait around 1900 years for what you just condemned in a much younger religion. the christian church is presently almost rent asunder by the gay priests issue. the essential FACT which ‘new age’ people totally overlook (with tragic consequences) is that ALL these ‘rights’ had to be fought for by people like us who were slandered as “irresponsible” “communist” “anti-western” “anti-God” for hundreds of years before a majority of us finally evolved. and now we want to send in soldiers to sort out these backward peoples. shouldn’t they be allowed to evolve at their own natural pace? and, despite all the paranoid fantasies from people like goodjeff, they have no wish whatever to change US! Negotiate?!!! There is no room for any extremism in this world. >> seriously, why don’t we arrest all the animals for their macho practices? answer: because, in our hard earned wisdom, we accept multi-culturalism/multi-speciesism and see the natural harmony of allowing things to evolve (that’s what evolution is all about for chrissake!) (I spose some of us have a better plan than god’s, right.) But yes, I agree that all US troops should be removed from Saudi Arabia. >> and an imposed solution on israel? and financial reparation? the only trouble is that you can’t see who to negotiate with, right? and why is that? because OUR governments have basically wiped out every brave honourable arab leader who’s ever appeared. so who else do YOU suggest we can deal with?! The problem is capitalism. Let’s change that; make the ‘way we do things’ compatible with the forgotten narratives of the modern age EMANCIPATION, FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, everywhere including America, that would really be something. End the “macho plan,” abolish compound interest, wipe out third world debt and replace hydrocarbons with carbohydrates tell the Arabs (and the oil companies) to stick their oil and tell Bush to fook off and stop making a mess of our beautiful world with his bullshit “war on terror” read: securing oil reserves for the last gasp of capitalism as we know it. . . . . let it be! Peace and love, marc deeley, glasgow up! Hey. I ain't got no troops Ain't got no control No weapons No recourse I live in America however many others I have no beef with you. Only with the government here. Kill me if you have to. As a whole we deserve it. But personally, I accept your offer and vow never to take up arms in the name of the United States of America. Period. SMIB Ivan Weiner, Los Angeles up! Peace Is Possible! The conflict currently being used to sustain America's vast empire (more than 700 foreign military bases and intelligence installations) and its attendant military-industrial complex is essentially one we created. Terrorists the world over did not declare war on us. The overwhelming majority are concerned with local issues in their own countries. >> where the US could pick bully them into submission one by one. Only one organisation, al-Qaeda, declared war on us. >> cos they finally realised they couldn’t just fight the Great Satan one by one. It has probably less than 1,000 members. America doesn't need 1.2 million men under arms, an ocean-girdling fleet, a $400 billion defense budget and a $40 billion intelligence budget to deal with 1,000 or fewer individuals. We could even consider what they say their demands are. *** They want FOREIGN TROOPS OUT OF THE ARABIAN PENINSULA. That's not a bad idea. We don't need military forces on the Arabian Peninsula. Oil has a peculiar characteristic: If you don't sell it, it's more or less worthless. Since the countries there are neither industrialised nor have much else to sell, we needn’t worry who governs them. Anyone who governs them will sell oil, because for the government it's sell oil or revert to poverty. >> there are a cuppla moral arguments too, but let’s leave ‘em aside for the moment. The notion that America needs military forces to "protect the oil" is a self-serving myth. *** The second demand is JUSTICE FOR THE PALESTINIANS. That one is easy. All we have to do is join the rest of the world in demanding Israel obey international law and remove its settlers and forces from the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. We should have done that a long time ago. Israel has become nothing but a pain in America's rear end. As for AFGHANISTAN, we should simply get out. We destroyed the Taliban and reinstalled the warlords and their opium business. We should simply say, "Good luck with your elections and farewell." The notion that Afghanistan is going to transform itself into a Western-style democracy is as crazy as the notion that Iraq will do the same thing. And as for IRAQ, we should also wish the Iraqis well in their elections and simply say "Goodbye." The Iraqis are capable of electing a government and recruiting an army, provided we leave them alone. The idea that American forces have to remain in Iraq for years and years is another lie. If our own president were truthful, he would admit that we came to loot rather than liberate. *** We can still HELP WITH CIVILIAN RECONSTRUCTION even though we’ve withdrawn militarily from these areas. Most of the destruction in Iraq is of our doing anyway. We should help. >> and most of the social/poetical chaos is our work too, and also the growing return to fundamentalism under the pressure. What a revolution it would be if the American government said to the world: "If you need food or medicine or civilian infrastructure, we are ready to help, but we will no longer sell you arms, station military forces in your territory, interfere in your internal affairs or take sides in your quarrels with others. What kind of government you wish to adopt is your business, not ours." It would be nice for Americans to be admired and welcomed once again as we used to be before this monstrous empire was constructed during the Cold War. Now, the imperial government in Washington, despite the absence of a Soviet Union, wants to maintain the empire and more or less rule the world. That is the path of perpetual conflict and eventual ruin, as it has been for every empire in human history. It's not too late, however, to elect men and women with brains enough to know that peace, not war, is the proper goal we should pursue. That can happen if the American people make it happen instead of acting like Romans and getting giddy every time they see the emperor or one of his generals. Charley Reese, Washington http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=2380 up! EMAIL OF THE WEEK Dear UP! Readers and Alternative Culture en general, Though the whole concept is 'amusing' (and Fraser knows I love a good stunt and laugh which his 'reply' is) the I accept/ peace and love at any cost/ both sides are awful/ mentality of much of the alternative culture is a great indication of the weakness of our subculture. I'm sure Fraser would have said the same to Hitler or Stalin or Mao and the majority of UP! readers would still have replied in similar terms (“I accept”). The mostly white middle class alternative culture does not come up against real evil too often, and that's why we often romanticise totalitarian movements or, as is the current vogue, shrug them off as equivalent to Western Christian U.S Imperialism etc. People forget that a huge majority of the Left of the time supported the so called 'Peace In Our Time' pact with Germany (and also supported Stalin and the Soviet experiment for a very long time... I myself supported Mao with great vigour..... goddess, was I wrong!!!) >> yes, but us hippies never made such daft mistakes. that’s the difference, with me anyway. i was a pure mystic hippy thru the ‘60s when it was perfectly obvious we couldn’t change much. NOW it‘s entirely different, now the Peace Movement is at its highest ever, the same Enemy Within is right up front and out in the open for all to see, and is ready for a Fall or already half fallen. There is and has been an undercurrent of thought by the 'left' that our own culture is so fucked up that nothing could be worse, only 'equivalent'. >> forget equivalence, that’s nowhere near my argument and is part of your misperception. if WE are the most powerful by a zillion miles then WE need constant critique for the sake of the rest of the planet. nobody else is threatening it (except the resistance we are creating). of course millions of immigrants and asylum seekers are not stuck in that illusion which is why they are coming here..... >> look, if they were bomming oxford you would be here which don’t mean u hated the oxford county council. there is a white middle class self hatred which is a disease among us >> actually it’s our greatest strength. and actually it’s got little to do with the kinda political elite we’ve had thru these years. ALL of the things you list next have come about AGAINST opposition from the elite you are defending. which a) does not enable us to see the huge amount of positive aspects to our own greater Western culture (political freedom, religious freedom, sexual freedom, gender freedom, socialised National Health in many countries, an economic atmosphere where nobody has to starve, even a vibrant arts and entertainment milieu. b) too often blurs us to the negative aspects of other cultures and movements, in this case Bin Laden and Islamic Fundamentalism. >> why do u keep implying that a criticism of US means a praising of the victim we’re defending?! it’s a totally ridiculous attitude. obviously it dates back to when you, as a yippy, idolised Mao and Ho Chi Minh. but I didn’t, and real hippies didn’t, and wouldn’t have DREAMED of doing so. and it is NOT a negative self-hatred at all! quite the opposite. it is my pride in my country’s near-democracy, and my love of it that drives me constantly to watch for any fallings or failings. truly! and I see your way-too-glib and smug defence of it as blindness to the dangers, a lack of understanding and respect for the fragility of what we have, the truly scary assaults being made on it. There is no way that the West including America is equivalent >> here u go again! to the evils (a very untrendy word in alternative circles) >> evil is a churchly invention to keep its followers in line. Evil is twisted ignorance, that’s the incoming modern belief. of Al-Queda and similar philosophies. the totally callous intentional attacks on the Trade Centres, Bali, and Madrid, to name three (which killed everyone from Muslims to Hippies and Ravers). again it doesn't mean the West and America in particular are some saintly institutions, and without a doubt the West can and should be criticised, but to make it equivalent >> oh PLEEEEEEase! to the reactionary Islamic fascism of Bin Laden style ultra-fundamentalists is nonsensical and infantile (and all you women who want to 'accept' I ask you to look at the way women are treated under Islamic Eco-fascism... not terribly good, I'm afraid. >> and there’s your clue, jeff. THEY know that as well as you do, but they still draw a line at US invading THEM for THEIR good. next you’ll be telling us that because Yassin (or Arafat yet?) had a backward view of women (like we still do and had virulently until only a very few years ago) it’s OK to assassinate him and his children, right? I recently wrote a brief letter in the UP! about the importance of MEANS in the alternative culture 'strategy'..... that how we struggle is more important than the end result. remember Communism was a lovely idea but the MEANS were abominable. the same applies here. We must not stoop so low as (even as a joke!) to play around with negotiations with out and out murderers and reactionaries (one of whose stated goals is to restore the 7th century Islamic Caliphate with full Sharia Law oh that will be fun). Of course Bin Laden has neatly left that out of his current 'truce' offer..... as well as leaving out views about Jews, women, hippies and all Infidels and their ultimate fate under the fundamentalist system he is trying to put in place. So here's another way of looking at it... Bin Laden and the rest of his mob (am I being politically incorrect here?) hate us pagany sexually liberated hippy raver freedom loving anti-authoritarian alternatives (I'm not even talking about the mainstream culture here which Fraser and many UP! readers despise) so why don't we feel that, why CAN'T we feel that this Bin Laden and his friends are an enemy of ours too..... >> because they’re asking us to get the hell out of their land. and refusing to take no for an answer. and prepared to raise the stake as high as it can possibly be raised if we continue to give no as an answer. stop me when I make a step you can’t innerstand. or is it your belief they’re preparing to march on Soho? if they decide to go that route then it’s really their decision (I mean the Arabs.) frankly I don’t think they’d have a chance of getting their sharia state if we weren’t forcing the mass of arabs to support the only part of their culture that has the guts or ‘spirit’ to fight back! or are we too hung up that he hates America, and wants troops out of Saudi Arabia etc. in other words, why play the game of an enemy of our enemy is our friend when we know from history that this always backfires... this is a crucial point UP! readers!!! Bin Laden is not just out to get American Imperialism, he's out to get us too, literally, people of the book may be protected in a future Islamic world but Pagans and other Infidels are to be killed no problem, why can't we see that when the Twin Towers were attacked, WE were personally attacked. >> yes, he hit Woodstock, New York’s Central Park, San Fran’s Golden Gate Park, Burning Man, and totally missed the capitalist control centres or symbols like the Pentagon and the World Trade Centre (ever since called the “Twin Towers” to disguise this embarrassing fact). always remember, if they hadn‘t been so intent on hitting military industrial/imperialist targets, they coulda crashed all 4 planes direct into New York City, but chose not to and killed far less than they could have. so it wasn’t simply a question of killing as many people as they could, they wanted to make a Statement. (of course now, since we’ve MORE than ignored the warning, they’ll have to hit whatever and whomever they can with their carpet cutters and herbicides) (you know, when people talked about the End of the American Empire I never quite understood what they meant or how that could come about. but I’m beginning to see it. one or two dirty nuclear bomms in washington and new york would create square miles of death and contamination for hundreds of years. gaping holes in america, could the resistance ever get that together? well, yes, IF THEY HAD ENOUGH PEOPLE DEDICATED AND DETERMINED AND KNOWLEDGEABLE ENOUGH. and what could ever drive so many people to get so committed to such am epic horrible task? you know the answer. by US continuing to raise the anti. and that would presage the Fall of the America Era. is that what you want, assholes?! :D) .....but the Alternative Culture loves to keep its eyes closed as long as American or Western Capitalism is being criticised or attacked. In addition here's another point to mull on.... Bin Laden's truce offer is a sign of weakness and by accepting it we are not taking practical advantage of the relatively weak state of Al-Queda etc. >> ha ha ha. al-Queda is about 100 times MORE powerful than b4 Bush got started (backed by types like you) make that 200. and how should we ‘take advantage’ of his ‘weakness’? by slaughtering the Syrians and Iranians perhaps? and half the young asians in britain and france? Osama is making precisely the same offer he made b4 9/11, and has been making ever since. this is a good practical chance to smash Al-Queda. >> like your israeli friends are doing to the Pals? smash em if they won’t lie down and accept our “wonderful” offer, right? now we see how u think. luckily the Human Spirit cannot be smashed like you and like-minded idiots hope, it rises UP! as someone says elsewhere in this UP! “there are situations that cannot be solved militarily”. you usually only offer truces when you are losing the war so to speak..... now if the Alternative Culture can see that Al-Queda is a big enemy to it (AND NOT JUST TO MAINSTREAM CULTURE), then maybe it will realise any sort of acceptance is a non-starter... That doesn't mean we should never support 'negotiations' with other groups and countries.... negotiations with the IRA were the right way to go..... that was a territorial dispute which did not threaten our very existence. Islamic Fundamentalism, taken to its logical conclusion, is a very dangerous foe indeed >> SO STOP PUSHING IT THERE FOR GODDESS SAKE! ..... no matter that they may make some valid points about Imperialism or other aspects of our greater culture (by the way the Moslem World were the world's greatest imperialists for a long time, but we'll ignore that small fact for the moment) >> no, we won’t. even during that time our Christ-Blinded Crusaders were out there ripping them off and controlling their lands. and your tradition were probably lending both sides the money :) so you may see some points in Bin Laden's offer that make sense, but the same could be said of Hitler's peace offer to Chamberlain in 1939 and many others like it...... we know too much about Bin Laden and Islamic Fascism to be unaware of the deeper agenda behind it. >> yeah, as soon as we made such a deal they’d be invading us big-time to make us all muslims right. just like Arafat the Billionaire dreams of invading new york. basically to destroy the non-Islamic world and subjugate most of the mainstream Islamic world to its dictates >> they ARE gonna invade new york!!!??? ..... why should you or I go along with that... why should you or I make a truce with that.... WAKE UP ACCEPTANCE VOTING UP READERS YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR VERY EXISTENCE (IF BIN LADEN WON THIS LITTLE SKIRMISH IN THE END! )..... Goodjeff, The Voice of Reason, Oxford. p.s. Dear Osama, how come even if someone accepts your offer, he or she will be exterminated (or if lucky simply subjugated) if you actually win and install true Wahibibi Fundamentalist Islam? >> huh? wickid case of paranoia. like the Afghanis invaded Russia as soon as it pulled its troops out, right? Ultra-Paranoia = if u give in an inch they’ll take a Mile, so don’t give an Inch, Take Ten Miles! right. Goddess is Great, >> if arafat has been assassinated by the time you read this, remember I shall have nothing but the purest contempt for you or anyone who tries to defend it. I may even end our personal friendship I shall be so sickened. am serious. wake UP! and smell the burning flesh it’s not coffee it’s coffee-coloured people. AND LASTLY. those who think we can’t negotiate with Bin Laden (like gerry adams, sharon himself and all the other terrorist leaders of the past) then who else would you nominate? i think Osama is about the best we can possibly find (not in it for the money, or the respectability, or the position). I think he should be asked to nominate members for an Arab Panel who should do the actual negotiations. since we’ve totally splintered and scattered their Unity, their true leaders will be found hiding in desert caves and mountain tops. and internet chat rooms. up! seems reasonable enough to me! I accept. alistair macdonald, scotland up! blow that cosmic horn, man! that's Miles Davis up there still causing trouble. mark, amsterdam up! Letter from 50 former British ambassadors to Tony Blair, urging him to influence US Middle East policy OR stop supporting it Published: 2004/04/26 16:35:24 GMT We the undersigned former British ambassadors, high commissioners, governors and senior international officials, including some who have long experience of the Middle East and others whose experience is elsewhere, have watched with deepening concern the policies which you have followed on the Arab-Israel problem and Iraq, in close co-operation with the United States. Following the press conference in Washington at which you and President Bush restated these policies, we feel the time has come to make our anxieties public, in the hope that they will be addressed in Parliament and will lead to a fundamental reassessment. The decision by the USA, the EU, Russia and the UN to launch a "Road Map" for the settlement of the Israel/Palestine conflict raised hopes that the major powers would at last make a determined and collective effort to resolve a problem which, more than any other, has for decades poisoned relations between the West and the Islamic and Arab worlds. ... But the hopes were ill-founded. Nothing effective has been done either to move the negotiations forward or to curb the violence. Britain and the other sponsors of the Road Map merely waited on American leadership, but waited in vain. Worse was to come. After all those wasted months, the international community has now been confronted with the announcement by Ariel Sharon and President Bush of new policies which are one-sided and illegal and which will cost yet more Israeli and Palestinian blood. Our dismay at this backward step is heightened by the fact that you yourself seem to have endorsed it, abandoning the principles which for nearly four decades have guided international efforts to restore peace in the Holy Land and which have been the basis for such successes as those efforts have produced. This abandonment of principle comes at a time when rightly or wrongly we are portrayed throughout the Arab and Muslim world as partners in an illegal and brutal occupation in Iraq. The conduct of the war in Iraq has made it clear that there was no effective plan for the post-Saddam settlement. All those with experience of the area predicted that the occupation of Iraq by the Coalition forces would meet serious and stubborn resistance, as has proved to be the case. To describe the resistance as led by terrorists, fanatics and foreigners is neither convincing nor helpful. Policy must take account of the nature and history of Iraq, the most complex country in the region. ... The military actions of the Coalition forces must be guided by political objectives and by the requirements of the Iraq theatre itself, not by criteria remote from them. It is not good enough to say that the use of force is a matter for local commanders. Heavy weapons unsuited to the task in hand, inflammatory language, the current confrontations in Najaf and Falluja, all these have built up rather than isolated the opposition. ... We share your view that the British government has an interest in working as closely as possible with the United States on both these related issues, and in exerting real influence as a loyal ally. We believe that the need for such influence is now a matter of the highest urgency. If that is unacceptable or unwelcome, there is no case for supporting policies which are doomed to failure. up! IN SOME SITUATIONS THERE IS NO MILITARY SOLUTION The UN's special envoy to Iraq strongly warned the United States on Sunday NOT TO USE MILITARY FORCE in Falluja or Najaf, where tense standoffs continued through the weekend between U.S. forces and heavily armed resistance groups. The envoy, Lakhdar Brahimi, urged the United States "to tread carefully" in Falluja, west of Baghdad, and said that sending tanks into the holy city of Najaf in the south "is not the right thing to do." “In such situations”, he added, "there is no military solution." ON THE SAME DAY leading U.S. congressmen of both parties told President George Bush they saw no choice but to subdue resistance in the cities. Opposition forces had to be “routed out," said Senator Richard Lugar of Indiana, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. GET OUT, TONY, IT’S THE DINOSAURS’ LAST ARMAGEDDON! http://www.iht.com/search/ihtsearch.php?id=516888&owner=(IHT)&date=20040426144928 up! I accept! murray cowell, manchester, uk up! Return Of The Youth Movement 14 year olds are demanding the vote in california, 16 and 17 year olds voted in baltimore last september 9, helping to decide the fate of the mayor and the city council, and cambridge mass is waiting for the legislature to approve their plan to lower the voting age to 17 for civic elections. now if we could get them to institute a maximum age of 50... well then, i'm firmly convinced that what we are seeing today is the final dinosaur dance of the crumbling patriarchy. humanity is outgrowing the role of Conquering Father, as it outgrew the role of Nourishing Mother... enter Horus, the Age of the Child, an era of friendship and cooperation, of brotherhood and sisterhood, of love and laughter... this revolution will not be televised it’s happening live wherever you are one person at a time. today tomorrow next week next year; sooner or later you're gonna have to let go of mom and dad, get out of the box, and venture around the block alone. just to see who might want to play. come on out. the weather’s fine! http://homepage.mac.com/chasbaudelaire/iblog/B1541229392/index.html chas, u.s. up! hi fraser, first off, Thank you for DOING what you're doing!! I already wrote a lengthy rap about us having to drastically change our consumerist behaviour to be able to keep the truce Osama is offering. but I deleted it all again. I don't really see us getting it together to make this place into what we all long for. agent smith was right, we're just a virus our planet is already in a fever one day it will take its medicine and we'll all go poof in the meantime I'll enjoy listening to the wind, talking to the trees and birds and watching the clouds drift by (but my pledges still stand, especially the thousand euros towards research and production of sustainable sharetech goods; so if you know of anyone up that alley please let me know) peace and love, andre kohler, US. up! "I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service. “I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested. “During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents." Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 up! In terms of financial reparation for sins of the past, are we going to compensate the descendants of Olaudah Equiano or the people who kidnapped him? >>> I don't see it as individual as that. more like a series of class actions through a UN panel etc. Sounds profitable for the lawyers! >> for UN lawyers, yes. maybe they could employ hundreds of 3rd world lawyers and train them for just this kinda thing, sorta peace-keeping legalese. i gotta feeling that our Future WILL see an ongoing never ending legal exploration of human history, and it's not that bad, just how humans seem to do things. Someone has to distribute the money within that country - and I think we could guess that most of it would not go to the people who needed it most. >> could be in the form of UN Aid. grants. easy-loans. bursaries. a kinda Planet Lottery Commission? not THAT hard. Then there's the question of time - do descendants of the Picts get compensation for the losses suffered at the hands of the Romans? >> definitely! :D Do Saxons get a pay off from the Normans? Are we going to pay Charles the Third compensation because we killed Charles the First? >> agreed it’s not agreed. but izzit impossible to do? I don’t think so. economics, claiming to be a science, is bound eventually to put a value on every singe thing in history and the present, no? I think a more practical alternative is just to stop The Man screwing the world's poorest people. Then pick an arbitrary date - perhaps 2000 in our calendar - and start a new balance sheet from there. Daniel James, London >> that would def NOT be fair. the planet NEEDS positive discrimination - otherwise the Man will just take over again from his head start, no? up! Dear Fraser, Look, try to live in the real world. Osama bin Laden has one thing in common with Saddam Hussein: they're both d-e-a-d, they are no more. Naturally, the US-UK Axis of Evil badly need their images to scare people with, because it hasn't got Reds-under-the-beds any more, so it can't admit this. Saddam was killed with his family by a cruise missile in the war, and some tramp who vaguely resembles him has been 'captured' instead. Notice how we never hear anything from him, and have only ever seen one or two carefully staged photos? www.thoughtcrimenews.com/saddamtramp.htm The funeral of Osama Bin Laden took place on 16th December 2001 in Pakistan as reported in Pakistani and Egyptian newspapers, with his last months spent in US hospitals on kidney dialysis. Nick K, London www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/ UP! (\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)
PEAK OIL FEEDBACKTEXT JOCKEY // TJ PHRASER (Fraser Clark) & THE MEDIA EVOLUTION MIXING THE TRACTS LIVE ON THE KEYBOARD @ A MEDIA-MEME RATE OF 160 IPP * * Ideas Per Paragraph (\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/) How Much World oil use in 2001 was 77 million barrels per day. That number is expected to rise to 121 million barrels per day by 2025, according to a report issued Wednesday by the U.S. Department of Energy. The United States, China and other developing Asian countries are expected to account for nearly 60% of the projected growth in oil consumption, the DOE said. Albert A. Bartlett, a retired physics professor at the University of Colorado and a leading authority on energy and growth, has postulated that if the total recoverable oil supply on earth is 2 trillion barrels, peak production would occur this year, more or less. He says that if total supply is assumed to be 3 trillion barrels of oil a figure that many experts find unduly optimistic peak production would happen about 2019. The International Energy Agency predicts the peak sometime between 2010 and 2020. The U.S. Energy Information Administration, which assumes 3 trillion barrels of oil, predicts the peak in 2037. If the total recoverable oil is assumed to be 2 trillion barrels, we've burned about half of the globe's tank. That’s significant, because peak production has been shown to coincide with the halfway point of exploitation. http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/editorials/article/0,1713,BDC_2489_2826713,00.html UP! BBC POLL// FEEDBACK Dear Fraser, The BBC Poll you quoted in the last UP! shows that the so-called general public is nowhere near as stupid as it’s often portrayed. The perceived world-threats are very much in line with the research results of many respected scientific institutions. Perhaps we scientists should go out more often and simply ask the people on the street who know best what their problems and fears really are? I see wisdom and clarity in those poll results, but one aspect is missing, and that may well be due to the simplified nature of polls en general: All the mentioned threats are closely interconnected. All of them. Climate change, wars, lack of water, globalisation, a dominant superpower, social degradation etc - for every schoolchild it should be easy to draw beautiful system diagrams with neat little arrows pointing from one to the other. The big, big problem is that our Vulture Culture ignored and keeps ignoring the rules of reality, the rules of nature, despite the fact that we do know them well. And the buddhist minded person I am sees one age-old main root cause for all the trouble: GREED. Stefan, Chicago UP! >>>> many thousands of deaths on every side before the thousand ‘developments,’ behavioural/ idealistic social currents, economic infrastructural collapses/ eruptions, and bio-digital nuclear space info-tec intrusions which swirl “chaotically” around this bifurcation point have finally resolved themselves one way or the other. I really appreciated your Big Picture talk. I'd been gravitating toward seeing it that way myself. A really impressive thing happened to humanity a while back: it accepted central government. No doubt would-be kings and particularly assertive warlords applied outrageous force on people toward that end, but it surely wouldn't have 'held' if people hadn't found it advantageous. No doubt one of the advantages they found was the strength that unity imparts to resist hegemonic outsiders, but probably also was the discovery that the order and peace thereby acquired was to a considerable extent worth giving up the merits of autonomy for the constituent groups. The international theatre is like the intranational one of that bygone time. There's nobody in charge, so (opportunistic) powers enter the vacuum. I am utterly horrified by the US invasion and occupation of Iraq, but I'm able to see that those who did it were reacting to a sort of 'wild card' evident there. So this answer to the 'wild card' is being tried out. But it is itself a 'wild card'. What's the world going to do? >> which is the biggest “wild card”? by a zillion miles?! That humanity was able to make the great leap to central government should buoy us; it shows that great improvements are possible (if agonizingly slow?). Interestingly the UN didn't peter out - it's proven that there is something of an answer in that kind of thing. Jennifer Winkler, U.S. (\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)
CLUBBERS FALL UNDER SPELL OF PSYTRANCE// FEEDBACKIF YOU CANNOT VIEW THIS PROPERLY, TELL US AND WE’LL PUT YOU ON A SPECIAL UNFORMATTED LIST. TO REPLY TO FRASER OR THE UP! SIMPLY HIT REPLY. TO SUBSCRIBE, WRITE “I wanna get UP!” TO people@parallel-youniversity.com TO UNSUBSCRIBE, EMAIL REMOVES@parallel-youniversity.com (\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/)(\o/) Ok, I'm not one for knocking anyone’s musical choices, groove to what you like, OK? But trance - yukk! Too fast, no groove, no invention, no funk. >> that’s not my picture of it. maybe am wrong but certainly don’t see it as particularly fast. I see it as somewhere between fast dance and ambient flow. no? Just something for acid tweaked hippies to bounce around to. >> which other socio grouping do u prefer? football hoolies? coked out lawyers and designers? drunken office working Xtians? Which is fine, but don't make out this is the music for people who wish to live outside the consensus reality & forge sustainable conscious living. I dig tech-house, breaks, garage, & general glitchy weirdness & even some trance is cool too. (Joti Sidhu who works at the same studio complex as me knocks out some great stuff) but I'm so bored of your ghetto zippy mentality re: music. There is plenty of underground dance music that is way more psychedelic than psy-trance anyway. >> my guess is we’re talking at cross purposes here. i’m for variety and I’m also for rave. the difference between a party and a rave is that at a party we just play everybody’s favourite track one after the other. a rave is more of a conscious group intention to raise the whole group level by controlled use of sounds, rhythms, vibrations. messages and harmonies etc. do u go to synergy? seaside tribe? anti world? or r u into more mainstream clubs and hence music? maybe where we would actually agree is where I see that psy trance COULD go :) Open up dude! Yours from the fifth dimension (& rising!) Jake Smith, London. a l l g o o d t h i n g s c o m e t o a n e n d
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