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StopHolyWar //YOU
EMERGENCY SPECIAL // sept 15 2001 QUESTION: HOW DO WE PREVENT ANOTHER 20,000
ANSWER: BEAUTIFUL AMERICANS FROM BEING SLAUGHTERED, POISONED, PLAGUED OR NUKED? BY HELPING THEM STOP THEIR GOVERNMENT
STOP THE HOLY WAR!!!FROM DOING IT TO ANOTHER 50,000 'FOREIGNERS! NOTE TO AMERICAN FRIENDS AND ALLIES: WE HAVE ALWAYS MADE AN ALMOST TOTAL DISTINCTION BETWEEN YOU LOVELY, CREATIVE, GENEROUS AND PROUD PEOPLE AND THE CORRUPT SYSTEM OF ELITE CONTROL THAT'S CALLED THE US GOVERNMENT. I SAY "ALMOST TOTAL DISTINCTION" BECAUSE, ULTIMATELY, PEOPLE GET THE GOVERNMENT THEY DESERVE. TO PUT IT VERY BLUNTLY, THE TIME HAS NOW COME FOR YOU TO DESERVE BETTER! AND FAST! IT'S THE UPGRADE's DUTY, REMEMBER, TO SUPPLY THE INFO THAT'S SCREENED OUT BY THE HOURLY BARRAGE OF THE OFFICIALLY CONTROLLED MEDIA. IF IT SEEMS OFTEN VERY CRITICAL IT'S NOT BECAUSE WE DON'T LOVE YOU! IT'S BECAUSE WE LOVE YOU. "We are already starting to liquidate our assets to prepare to move back to London... You cannot imagine how frightening it is to be in this environment with the majority of Americans calling for blood .... Already people are very reluctant to publicly share any opinion that does not reflect the government line for fear of retribution... " Stefan / America. #______________ A CALL TO ARMS OF LOVE " FIRST WAR OF THE 21ST CENTURY"????
# THE TOPPLING OF THE TOWER. # DON'T LET THESE 2OTH CENTURY PISSHEADS BLASPHEME ALL OVER OUR NEW MILLENNIUM VISION!!!!! IF THEY THINK WE'RE GOING TO LET THEM CREATE A WHOLE NEW SUICIDE BOMMER GENERATION THEY MUST BE EVEN BLINDER THAN WE THOUGHT! IT'S OUR FOOKIN' PLANET THEY'RE PONCING ABOUT WITH! THIS IS AN OPEN, FRANK, FEARLESS AND 'DEMOCRATIC' DISCUSSION OF The Toppling Of The Tower # (increasingly difficult to find) ALL VIEWS WILL BE GIVEN A VOICE AND LISTENED TO. NOBODY CAN PUNCH ANYONE'S FACE ON-LINE OR TRASH THEIR TEMPLE. THE MOST VIOLENT ACT POSSIBLE HERE IS TO ASK TO BE REMOVED. 20 PEOPLE HAVE DONE JUST THAT SINCE THE LAST UPGRADE (MOSTLY AMERICAN, but not bad out of 10,500). WE PUBLISH SOME OF THEIR VIEWS BELOW. OTHER OPINIONS THAN YOUR OWN CANNOT HARM YOU, AND ASKING TO BE REMOVED IS CLOSING YOUR MIND WHICH IS, IFYOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE FIRST STEP IN… WAR. THE TOPPLING OF THE TOWER IS ONE THING,
FOR THE NATURAL, ANCIENT AND SHAMANIC ABILITY OF A COMMUNITY TO 'COME TOGETHER' AFTER A TERRIBLE TRAGEDY SUCH AS AMERICANS HAVE JUST UNDERGONE IS BEING HIJACKED AT THIS VERY MOMENT BY THE VERY VAMPIRE ELITE WHO 'INVITED' THE PUNISHMENT DOWN UPON THEIR PEOPLE IN THE FIRST PLACE! BUT THE FOLLOW-UP' IS A WHOLE NEW BALLGAME HENCE THIS EMERGENCY UPGRADEmag UNLESS THE ALTERNATIVE COMMUNITY GETS MOVING FAST TO AFFECT "PUBLIC OPINION" THERE'S GOING TO BE A FINAL HOLY WAR ON OUR PLANET. HERE'S A TASTE OF WHAT IS BEGINNING TO 'HAPPEN' IN AMERICA WHERE, AS WE SENSITIVE SOULS ALLOW OURSELVES SOME TIME FOR GRIEF, THE RIGHT WING IS ALREADY WELL INTO ITS STRIDE: Oakland, California Arab and Muslim American organizations in the Bay Area and across the U.S. have been reporting death threats as of Tuesday afternoon. And just a preachy bit, if you'll permit me the opportunity: it's time for activists across the hip-hop nation to make their voices heard as Dubya prepares for war - this is a mission he's been riding toward with his thinly-veiled antagonism toward peacemakers in the Middle East and racial justice advocates last week in South Africa. Think Peace, Act For Peace! Jeff Chang Oakland, California WED SEPT 12 PEOPLE OF COLOR GROUPS GATHER TO STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH ARAB AMERICANS AND TO MOURN THE EAST COAST DEAD Community-based organizations led by people of color will hold a "Solidarity Gathering" and candle light vigil to support the Arab American community, which is suffering from a tidal wave of bigotry in the wake of Tuesday's bombings in New York City and Washington, D.C. Endorsed by Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, Let1s Get Free, Youth Force Coalition, Bay Area PoliceWatch, Underground Railroad and STORM. "Anti-Arab hostility is already reaching a fever pitch" said Van Jones, director of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights. "We fear that an atmosphere is being created that will result in official and street violence against Arab men, women and children." "No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings, we cannot tolerate stereotypes and blanket attacks against any ethnic group," said Raquel of STORM. "And we especially don't want Asian-American, African-American, Latino or Native American communities getting pulled into a frenzy of hatred" @ Snow Park, at 19th and Harrison, in downtown Oakland, near the lake. INFO - Robin Templeton, Ella Baker Center for Human Rights 415.305.8575 # DIARY OF THE BIRTH OF A RELIGIOUS WAR? Somewhere in America WED SEPT 12, 2001 We are physically OK, but everyone here is very worried about the backlash/ clampdown that the Bush administration are likely to implement... There are some very scary undercurrents going on here... Republican types are barely concealing their glee at restricting civil liberties & the potential of a war that will justify a major diversion of the budget from social services towards the military ... The distraction from the economy is also welcome news to them... There seems to be a big difference between news for international vs local consumption ... there is an element of restraint & reason on CNN that is in sharp contrast to the more propagandistic stuff that is being put out solely for US audiences... Sports Fan types are already calling for the blood of ALL Muslims as if it was the SuperBowl... Meanwhile many subjects are being studiously avoided ... how deregulation of US airlines let them drop the Air Marshal program (which would have made this situation almost impossible) for a savings of around $100 per flight... the lack of precautions in case Bio or Chemical weapons were also involved (many New York friends are extremely worried about this aspect)... The list goes on... Meanwhile we have the worst President in US history sobbing & shaking in the toilet of AirForce One while his controllers from the military-industrial complex are making plans that could affect the fundamental freedoms of everyone in the US... The feeling here is that the explosions may be over but the worst is yet to come - at the hands of our own government... Everything has changed... Stefan... THURS SEPT 13 Things are getting even scarier here with lots of Arabic children getting beaten up... The Islamic center was attacked with blood last night... Sportsfans have turned into brownshirts overnight... Lots of vandalism at almost every mosque in the city... and most of the victims are not reporting these incidents for fear of further reprisals... If things do not improve very quickly it will be almost impossible to live here without fear... We are already starting to liquidate our assets to prepare to move back to London... You cannot imagine how frightening it is to be in this environment with the majority of Americans calling for blood .... Already people are very reluctant to publicly share any opinion that does not reflect the `GOP line' for fear of retribution... Lots more going on... but I have to get back to work... Onward & Upward, Stefan # "Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." Hermann Goering / Nuremberg Trials after World War II molyart # good work fraser, what u're doing is vital. we need a place where we can feel solidarity while coming to terms with the awful truth, where we can share knowledge through sincere debate, and where we can find the perspective we need to understand the way out of all this madness. pescao # Noam Chomsky writes from America: The terrorist attacks were major atrocities. In scale they may not reach the level of many others, for example, Clinton's bombing of the Sudan with no credible pretext, destroying half its pharmaceutical supplies and killing unknown numbers of people (no one knows, because the US blocked an inquiry at the UN and no one cares to pursue it). Not to speak of much worse cases, which easily come to mind. But that this was a horrendous crime is not in doubt. The primary victims, as usual, were working people: janitors, secretaries, firemen, etc. It is likely to prove to be a crushing blow to Palestinians and other poor and oppressed people. It is also likely to lead to harsh security controls, with many possible ramifications for undermining civil liberties and internal freedom. In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope to use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the likely US actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks like this one, or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than they appeared to be before the latest atrocities. As to how to react, we have a choice. We can express justified horror; we can seek to understand what may have led to the crimes, which means making an effort to enter the minds of the likely perpetrators. If we choose the latter course, we can do no better, I think, than to listen to the words of Robert Fisk, whose direct knowledge and insight into affairs of the region is unmatched after many years of distinguished reporting. "This is not the war of democracy versus terror that the world will be asked to believe in the coming days. It is also about American missiles smashing into Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing missiles into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells crashing into a village called Qana and about a Lebanese militia - paid and uniformed by America's Israeli ally - hacking and raping and murdering their way through refugee camps." And much more. Again, we have a choice: we may try to understand, or refuse to do so, contributing to the likelihood that much worse lies ahead. # 9/13/01 Dear Friends, I am on the road tonight, the only way to get out of L.A. and back home to our daughter and our friends in New York City. The sorrow and anger builds across America. Talk radio tonight was filled with calls for carpet-bombing every Arab country. Many want revenge, blood. But a surprising number of people have called for us to not add to the killing of more innocent humans. The rest stops and convenience stores along the way were filled with quiet, solemn people, many of whom, like us, can get home no other way than by this four-day trip. We have learned of more people we know who have lost their lives. Bill Weems, who worked as a line producer for us this year, was on the flight from Boston that crashed into the World Trade Center# He was such a sweet and decent soul. Such senseless madness. The children of New York who are orphaned tonight ... what do we say or do? I will do my part -- anything, something -- as soon as I get to New York. But it will never be enough. The firefighters of New York: they are on every other block, every day, and they are your best neighbors. Sitting out on the sidewalks in front of the fire stations, a good word and a kind smile to all who pass ... now, 350+ of them gone, having risked their lives to save the victims of a carnage they soon became part of. The man who occupies the White House cried today. Good. Keep crying, Mr. Bush. The more you cry, the less you will go to that dark side in all humans where anger rages to a point where we want to blindly kill. Your dad's and Reagan's old cronies -- Eagleberger, Baker, Schultz -- are all calling for you to bomb first and ask questions later. You must NOT do this. If only because you do not want to stoop to these mass murderers' level. Yes, find out who did it. Yes, see that they NEVER do it again. But GET A GRIP, man. "Declare war?" War against whom? One guy in the desert whom we can never seem to find? Are our leaders telling us that the most powerful country on earth cannot dispose of one sick evil f---wad of a guy? Because if that is what you are telling us, then we are truly screwed. If you are unable to take out this lone ZZ Top wannabe, what on earth would you do for us if we were attacked by a nation of millions? But I beg you, Mr. Bush, stay with the tears. Do not declare war and massacre more innocents. After bin Laden's previous act of terror, our last elected president went and bombed what he said was "bin Laden's camp" in Afghanistan -- but instead just killed civilians. Then he bombed a factory in the Sudan, saying it was "making chemical weapons." It turned out to be making aspirin. Innocent people murdered by our Air Force. Back in May, you gave the Taliban in Afghanistan $48 million dollars of our tax money. No free nation on earth would give them a cent, but you gave them a gift of $48 million because they said they had "banned all drugs." Because your Drug War was more important than the actual war the Taliban had inflicted on its own people, you helped to fund the regime who had given refuge to the very man you now say is responsible for killing my friend on that plane and for killing the friends of families of thousands and thousands of people. How dare you talk about more killing now! Shame! Shame! Shame! Explain your actions in support of the Taliban! Tell us why your father and his partner Mr. Reagan trained Mr. bin Laden in how to be a terrorist! Am I angry? You bet I am. I am an American citizen, and my leaders have taken my money to fund mass murder. And now my friends have paid the price with their lives. Keep crying, Mr. Bush. Keep running to Omaha or wherever it is you go while others die, just as you ran during Vietnam while claiming to be "on duty" in the Air National Guard. Nine boys from my high school died in that miserable war. And now you are asking for "unity" so you can start another one? DO NOT INSULT ME OR MY COUNTRY LIKE THIS! Yes, I, too, will be in church at noon today, on this national day of mourning. I will pray for you, and us, and the children of New York, and the children of this sad and ugly world. michaelmoore-l@cloud9.net # (and don't miss brummbaer's infinitely wise comments at the end of this UP lying low or high in the us of a :) # Saudi officials noted that names bandied about this week as armed and dangerous men and even suicide pilots turned out to be average Saudi citizens sitting quietly home in Jidda and Mecca, their flight training over. New York Times # dear doog, At 04:28 PM 9/12/01 +0000, you wrote: >>Fraser, I usually love your weekly mailout - but man, I can't believe what you've written about the hijacking and deliberate crashing of the planes in the US. I can go along with a lot of your anger towards unaccountable, world financial power houses such as the WTC, IMF, WTO et al and the militaristic might of the Pentagon - but man, killing stewardesses, passengers on a plane, visitors to NYC - none of these people are the machines of global capitalism - these are people like you and me. half a million babies have starved to death in iraq in the last year. how many palestinians are killed EVERY SINGLE DAY, and also israelis? do you think the people in belgrade felt any different than new yorkers when their capital was trashed? or the chinese in their embassy when it was deliberately hit by US bombs? what i'm saying, doog, is that i suffer for ALL of these innocent people being killed by psychopaths WHATEVER SIDE THEY ARE ON. now america seems to be asking (demanding!) that somehow we should all take this as more shocking than all these other killings that i've been fighting against for years (as i see it, right or wrong). well, doog, i CANNOT feel any worse about americans being killed. i'm sorry if that's too much for you but it is a simple fact. All activists must retain the central tenet of non-violence, else we degrade ourselves. totally agreed. personally I've been peacefully fighting this problem for nearly 4 decades now, and it's mostly still getting worse, not better (except for rave culture's ongoing renaissance of western culture) The scale of death and destruction that these people have wrought is unimaginable. actually it isn't. try iraq, try yugoslavia. try ruanda, palestine. i could go on. all that's different now is that america (the cause & banker of so much of the other suffering on the planet) has finally had a taste of it. THAT IS ALL - only americans think it's something 'special'. (this is true whatever you may hear our 'leaders' saying, they no more speak for us than your government does.) I accept that it's your first reactions, and I'd like to stay on your list, but I also really hope you re-consider over the next 6 days and put some sort of qualifying statement into your next mailing. although i shall feel somewhat hypocritical i shall include a statement that "of course we suffer for america's tragedy etc") i shall feel hypocritical because i didn't say such things every day about dead palestinians and israelis etc but i shall do it because I consider it's crucial that you sensible americans now get off your asses and stop your jingoistic 'ruling elite' from 'punishing' back for the 'punishment' they've just received. i am very very afraid that the israeli tail is now starting to wag the american dog, and they are going to go all out on a religious war. AND THEY WILL CREATE (I TELL YOU NOW) A WHOLE NEW GENERATION OF SUICIDE BOMBERS and it will all happen to you again, only worse this time, and to us too because of america. izzat what u want?! let the dead bury the dead and start working to stop the next deaths - that is TRUE MORALITY! The world needs to recover from this (if Dubya will let us), he won't, that's already clear, which is why i didn't wait sensitively b4 saying what i said, things are moving too fast, and we have much work to do to stop the psychopaths who created the present situation from making it a helluva lot worse! learn from it and bring the perpetrators to justice - not execution without trial, justice. fine. so long as you include the horrible horrible people your taxes pay for who've done FAR FAR WORSE than this across the planet. i mean torturing, etc etc. I sincerely hope that no knee jerk reactions take place, other than your mailout. if u r in america, doog, you will be surrounded by loadsa "knee jerks" right now, all trying to sound like they CARE when they actually have totally selfish agendas. let's sort out who REALLY cares! and them's the people who have been trying for years and who are trying now to STOP THE HOLY WAR! I also never thought I would see you defending the Taliban - man I hope you get your perspective back soon. Take care, Dooog / Los Angeles do NOT write to me again until you've read the taliban ambassador's speech on our site, otherwise i shall assume you are not a serious person and do not really care to know the truth (by which i mean enough information from all sides to allow a ROUNDED AND BALANCED assessment - have you EVER read, even once, their side of these matters?!) lots of care and love fraser Hi Fraser, Thanks for writing back. I think, having read your mail, that we are in pretty much total agreement. The US's foreign policy has led to people being driven into the arms of the terrorist organisations. The ongoing bombing missions in Iraq, the Israeli missile attacks in the Palestinian territories, the attack on the factories in Sudan, none of these are easier to accept than the suicide planes. What I objected to was the almost gloating nature of your mail, it was almost reveling in seeing what America had brought on itself. The tragedy is that it (like all the terrorist actions above and the countless others that the 'civilised' nations perpetrate) has not killed the warmongers, or the international financiers that sit behind them worshiping the almighty dollar, but has killed countless innocents. agreed. and my heart goes out to all innocent people everywhere. and has done for a very long time while, to take only a single example, we were largely rubbished during the zippy tour for warning that america was NOT paradise on earth and that a terrible waking up was imminent if it didn't embrace the renaissance of values that rave culture offered. all you americans who are grieving this latest horror should try to expand your conscious suffering to include ALL victims everywhere. the correct and appropriate response will then become easy to decide. What we must all work for is to control America's response - not do our equivalent of dancing in the street firing rounds into the air in jubilation. Is the media hypocritical in its portrayal of this incident compared to the West's attacks - Yes, undoubtedly. Must America be stopped from making the situation worse - absolutely. Must the rednecks in the US be prevented from exacting their ill considered and ignorant revenge on their neighbours - I don't think I need to answer that. But should we celebrate America being woken up to the fact that huge sections of the planet have just cause to hate them - possibly, but we should also remember that thousands more innocent people have paid with their lives. Peace fraser, I hope the coming days don't bring us more bodies to count. Dooog amen, man. # It's great that you handle the subject of the World Trade attack somewhat the same as I chose to do in my radio program. I take your notes as double reference. I agree that the cowboy mentality of looking for enemies can cause enormous World peace problems. Not only the arrogant island-mentality of feeling the US government is better than the rest of the world, but also the arrogance of the Israeli government has reached dangerous proportions. Saying that their system is, not only right and justified, but even superior to any other, and that any criticism must be from a so-called enemy, and that all such enemies should be eliminated, is even much worse than the crashing of the WTC because it can cause even worse scenarios. The extremists who did these desperate acts are as extreme in thinking as the US and Israeli governments who don't compromise with what is different. Gerald Van Waes / Radio Centraal, Antwerp, Belgium # dear amanda, i hear and respect what you are saying. my deepest concern goes out to you over the friends who might be involved. At 11:36 AM 9/12/01 -0700, you wrote >>with all due respect, i feel you have overlooked the most human, horrific aspect of yesterday's tragedy. thousands of people have died. please acknowledge this before you go ahead and condemn an entire nation, lumping all americans in with this "rogue nation." i know people who died. do not describe genocide with such general, detached symbolism. it is wholly inappropriate to ignore the personal grief arising from this tragedy, and then to list club nights. i am extremely discouraged by your latest transmission, and am generally discouraged by the club/rave community's callous decision to post club listings, to promote "business" on this day of absolute horror. amanda yet, while i admit i might have waited a week or so till the pain had settled down in all my american friends who might have friends there etc, nevertheless, against that, whole new currents of thinking were instantly unleashed and are in danger of setting the Public Agenda, and i am very much afraid that, unless something is done, those in charge of the system are going to make things very much worse - by increasing their violent domination and arrogance and creating a whole new generation of suicide bombers.. it's my duty to do what i can to prevent this. rather than lamenting the present deaths I must continue my work (as I see it) to stop the future ones, many many more of which will occur on both sides if what I am rapidly starting to fear is a Holy War between "xtians" and "muslims" really gets going (not that any of the main combatants are either, of course, they're psychopaths) now let me ask YOU something. consider the last 20,000 dead palestinians. or the half million iraqui babies who starved to death this past year alone. how many times did you express suffering for them? how much did you read? think carefully: r u saying that I should be more upset about american deaths (and make more fuss) than for other nations? if you didn't protest and publicly express despair and anger for all the suffering this system's been dumping on the rest of the world all this time then why (PLEASE TELL ME!) should one have to express more emotion now? personally i can't find it in myself to do it. i do NOT care more about the american deaths. ALL this human suffering on all sides has been daily draining my heart for decades now and inspiring my work to change the culture. period. here's an even better example, amanda. TODAY 4 people were killed and 17 injured in palestine (page 7 of your newspaper). i don't hear you expressing "personal grief arising from this tragedy". but wot u r really saying, I suppose, is that we should drop everything? this is so big and terrible? i feel your emotion. but, amanda, it IS NOT WORSE than what i have been struggling against these past 20 years and more. the only difference this time is that it's the americans at the receiving end. THAT IS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE. i keep hearing on our media that this is all a big shock to americans. well, that's something you have to deal with but remember THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS BEEN DEALING WITH ALLTHIS MESS (MOSTLY AMERICAN CREATED AND FUNDED) ALL ITS ADULT LIFE. all that's changed really is that YOU AMERICANS have finally "joined the club". as a 'friend' my heart goes out to you. truly. and, if all this really moves you finally to see what caused these deaths and that you are personally responsible for struggling to stop it happening too much in the future, that's when you may re-see the rave scene as about the only vehicle through which such a change can come about. all my love fraser. # The loss of innocent lives is more disgusting than words can express. The office workers, the cleaners, the lift repair men, the people who jumped to their deaths perhaps hoping against hope that they would somehow survive ... those incinerated in the building by thousands of gallons of aircraft fuel ... ordinary US citizens ... just like ordinary people in Paris, Amsterdam, Bangkok, Tripoli and Baghdad. But look, and look hard, this is what men of violence do to cities, what British and American planes did to Basra in Iraq, what British and American planes did to parts of Belgrade. When I spout on about missiles slamming into the side of escaping Kosovan women, children and pensioners packed into a train I mean it. They died terrible, flesh-ripping deaths. When you fire cruise missiles into packed shelters full of women and kids in Baghdad they too died terrible deaths. When you kill 5.8 million Vietnamese, carpet bombing their rudimentary homes whilst leaving the centre of Hanoi and Saigon clear so you had somewhere nice to stay when you invaded, they too died terrible deaths. And when you rounded up every socialist and liberal in Indonesia and had them killed and tortured they too died terrible deaths. We can add Panama, Honduras, Guatemala, Colombia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Laos, Cambodia, Israel. Adam Porter, Year Zero magazine. # I agree with Fraser's editorial on the tragic events in the US. Though I'm not so sure if ALL the people in the Towers # (and the planes) WERE less innocent than those in Occupied Palestine! My feelings on seeing the footage (perhaps some of the most incredible ever filmed, and a major propaganda victory for the terrorists) was, and is, ambiguous. I was thrilled to see those icons of military and economic terrorism reduced to rubble (and to see US Fascism, lets not mince words, humbled by its equally repellent mirror image amongst the Islamic Terrorists), while, like most people who are free of fixed mentality and are able to feel two contradictory emotions simultaneously (or at least consecutively!), felt the horror and sadness at the innocent lives lost on board the planes and in the Towers. # Harry Hara / london # "Except that the public being targeted in the World Trade building and the Pentagon are LESS innocent than the public being hit in Lebanon." You are philosophically correct...but in this case that is completely irrelevant bullshit. Living in America I understand first hand that my country perpetuates an unsustainable, soul destroying, consumers uber alles lifestyle. But your implication that the victims got what they deserve by their "LESS innocent" nature...FUCK THAT! You can draw all the connections you want between the American government's national policies and Israeli missile attacks.... you of all people should understand that a government's actions do not always truly represent the people of a nation. Have I misunderstood you? What are you trying to say? Brian - Tampa Florida I can't believe that anyone could possibly think I said or implied that the bystanders were guilty! but everyone who worked there WAS less innocent. c next letter. # the ONLY subject people should be talking about on TV, the internet, on the streets or in the pub is how can we avoid world war 3. as far as i can tell, the only people actually doing this publicly are the arab countries! in the west it's all war, war, war. it's disgusting. u think america/ israel/ nato would win such a war? think again - think of the hundreds of millions of muslims around the world, living both inside and outside the US and 'barbed-wire europe' who'd be willing to do anything, even sacrifice themselves, to fight for allah against the great enemy. think mass-terrorism, think civil war, think nuclear and biological weapons. then ask yourself, are your leaders acting in your best interests? as for the whole innocent/ guilty westerners argument, well, look at the quote: "the public being targeted in the World Trade building and the Pentagon are LESS innocent than the public being hit in Lebanon." i'm sorry, but this point is almost a truism. anyone living in the US and supporting the industro-military complex, as the majority of those in the world trade center and the pentagon certainly were, is obviously less innocent than the poverty-stricken, under-educated, under-attack families in lebanon. let's not forget, the reason they are poverty-stricken and under-educated and living in daily fear of their lives is directly because of (illegal) decisions made in buildings like the pentagon and wtc. SPECIFICALLY the pentagon and wtc! these are criminal, amoral institutions, both within our primitive official law and within any kind of moral code we would want to live by, which is not to say there were no innocent lives lost, but the *target* was quite clearly 5-star generals and captains-of-industry, who, let's face it, are probably the most guilty people on the planet, the people who get rich and powerful from the continued pain, suffering and poverty of others, and use words like "freedom", "civilisation" and "democracy" to defend their wicked actions. that's not to say they deserved to die, far far from it, and surely no one could believe that the writer meant anything like that. he was pointing out the hypocrisy of mourning these victims while ignoring the exact same fractals of death and destruction when they happen to arabs or generally any non-white 3rd-worlders. the system itself is guilty, and those that support it are guilty by association. america u reap what u sow. pescao / london # Norman Mailer writes from New York: What Americans refuse to recognise is that large parts of the world, particularly the most backward nations, see us as cultural oppressors and aesthetic oppressors. A lot of people resent it profoundly. They don't have money, they don't have democratic government, but what they do have is roots. That's all they have and globalisation is taking it away. Until America realises the damage it is doing by insisting that that way of life, the huge profit-making way of life, is not necessarily a good fit for most countries, we are going to be in trouble. We are going to be the most hated nation on earth." # Hello Fraser, I read the article by the Taliban's Ambassador, and coming from Belfast I can understand to some degree the country's position. I also understand your position in wanting a world balance, and the opportunity to make a point, because I would be of the same school of thought. But when a large number of innocent people from any nation die a great sadness accompanies it. I was just sad to see that not once was there even the slightest reference to a moment of thought for those who had died, at the start of your email. Just because they are americans and have a bunch of power-happy fruitloops as their governors doesn't mean that they, as people, should be neglected from a compassionate thought. Even at the start of the article, if you'd said 'As we spare a thought for the innocent involved in this tragedy, be aware of the larger picture that ....' This of course is only my opinion, and does not detract from the work or the ethos that you maintain. gawain / australia # Dear Fraser I don't know who put me on your list, but I'm glad s/he did. Thank you for doing what you are doing, and for telling it like it is. Your tribute to the Rainbow Farm victims was very moving. If the US government is so opposed to terrorism, it should try shutting down the war on some drugs. Best wishes Harry the Dead Poet / new zealand. thanks for reminding me, harry. all you young american ravers think about this: if even your own local police can cynically break the law and use corrupt tactics to break up their own childrens' activities (as we've been reporting and condemning all this year) then multiply how your government's foreign operatives might treat poor defenceless 'enemies' abroad. # You are a disgusting human being - remove me from this list immediately. Have you no shame? You are a serious piece of shit, and I expect, a fanatic. I do not support you in any form or shape and do not wish to receive any further correspondence from someone so callous as yourself. I wish you no ill will (not that you don't deserve some), but if you are going to talk about "karma" you really should try to be more thoughtful in the midst of the suffering of hundreds of thousands of HUMAN BEINGS!!! If you respond to this email I will promptly forward all your following correspondence to the appropriate division at the FBI. kri / asheville /north carolina # BOMBING AFGHANISTAN BACK INTO THE STONE AGE? That's already been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. Create a bunch of "acceptable collateral damage"? Well, you may have a point. Tamin, an Afghani living in America. # Fraser, Thanks for saying this, It is just what I have been feeling for the last 24 hours, that the Cowboys and Indians culture has taken over the world. that no one at all is saying that this event is a result of a culture of violence & vengeance which has been escalating for 100 years, and no one is talking to the wise men and women in our world, asking humbly for help - we have tried bombing our way out of myriad crises in my lifetime and this is where it gets to..... always. violence begets violence. who is reflecting on what peaceful options there may be, who is looking for wise teachers, both alive and dead? Who is asking how we might have to change ourselves inwardly, and the world bank and mega business outwardly? As the sufis say. "how can our hearts radiate peace"? with love merle gering ps: I have just had a very separate thought. Would you be willing to put into your broadcast a notice for a very wonderful charity - Salt of the Earth, which is creating economic justice (that is the chance to eat and grow up) for 200,000 of the very poorest people in Tamil Nadu? I'd like to advertise for people to do sponsored rides in the Isle of Man TT on Mad Sunday 2 June, 2002 - anyone with a bike can do it, there are no requirements, but you do need to get ferry travel reserved 6 months ahead. merle.g@cwcom.net # 'Americans sincerely aspire to do the right thing'? Somebody said that in your amazing GroupMind tokkathon! But so did Hitler! But sleepers are no judges. In truth there is really no such thing as 'America', just a bunch of multi-ethnic 'Americans' living a dire existence under the oppression of the rich elite and their whores. Backed up by delusory Nationalistic sentiment and false religion. Lets have no more rhetoric, it's time individual Americans became responsible for themselves, time to grow up and leave home, and collectively seize power from their oppressors by controlling their own lives. I've lived in America many times and seen this, I've also seen much that is positive come out of America, but always from its people, and usually in the cracks an the system, an assertion of liberty against the tyranny that is the American System and its so-called 'Liberal Democracy'. But I agree America isn't the enemy nor is the Taliban, let's break from these dinosaurs of death and affirm life and our own free spirits. I agree, but lets 'become the change'.. Frank. # >>Please remove me from this mailing list.. Although I've found a lot of your green threads interesting, and I appreciate your push to get into a systematic understanding of these global issues, this last email is more idiotic than I care to be a part of. Although I agree there are issues that are pushing people into terrorism and these aren't issues that can be fought with weapons, I hope you understand that you have just sent an email to a person who has had family and friends put in danger from an extremely violent attack and that there was no justification for this violence. there's very rarely (if ever) a justification for violence. but there very definitely is karma. if you throw a rock in the air and it comes down on your head - is that a justification or an inevitable consequence? >>You don't allow the U.S. any justification for extreme violence (and you shouldn't), so don't give the same leniency to criminals whether from within the U.S. or from somewhere else (would you ever ask 'What pushes a U.S. President so far that he feels he would have to start a war over oil? - in the same way you ask "WHAT WOULD SO ALIENATE HUMAN BEINGS THAT THEY WOULD DO SUCH TERRIBLE THINGS?!") actually i do it all the time. i print studies of the super rich and their attitudes etc etc etc etc and etc. >>It's sad to see someone with a sharp mind fail to make this distinction. But I think you see people in the power structure as less than human beings who deserve a cruel end, a dinosaur culture you label them. a swiss colleague of mine, a world expert on pagan beliefs and history, once told me that a particular and very powerful pagan brotherhood believed that the christians had been "secreting" a vital essence from nature and holding it within their bodies and that, when the time came to take back our planet from their elite governing class, we would have to plough their bodies back into the earth. it wasn't personal or revenge to him, it was simply a physical fact. well, I'm here to tell you that, although I could very well accept his point, I was deeply troubled for months about it. (so u r quite wrong, i mostly see them as lost souls.) my solution in the end? we should give them a fair trial ("Did You Damage The Earth and Her Inhabitants For Personal Gain?"), TELL them we're going to dig their bodies back into the earth, tie them up to trees to scare the shit out of them, AND THEN PLOUGH THAT BACK INTO THE GROUND! >>Also, you see this new rave culture as some sort of evolutionary progress, a new meme that will eventually replace what you label as the dinosaur culture. This 'new' type of person you are describing, a zippie is nothing more than a hippie with a computer. What you are really after is the same thing as the hippies were: a break down of cultural structures. You want to get rid of the rules and boundaries between cultures and countries to where we exist harmoniously without need for conflict or war. While there are many important needs that this type of environment fulfills, this is nothing new and definitely not an end in itself or a basis for a society. actually this would be totally new, at least since pure tribal days. living & blossoming harmoniously together would be virtually an end in itself, and it seems to me this would be a perfect basis for society, indeed today it's the only possible basis. as for the zippy being a hippy with a mobile, well, that's partly true in that we've ALL evolved. but it's a lot, lot more, and I very deliberately set out to express what I thought wa a real change, much like you actually imply in your criticism of hippies. you could look it up on my personal site and gimme a critique if u like >>The reason this type of idea has such a limited effect on the world is not because enough people are 'not getting it', but because your ideas are only trying to break down structures instead of providing new ones (believe me, the collective unconscious or whatever you call it knows the difference.) i do believe you. hence, among other things, rave culture's global blossoming and now about to get a whole new level of education as the ruling elite loses the last of its senses and starts to get wagged by the israeli dog. >>And while it would be wonderful if more people could be more aware and peaceful when dealing with diversity, peace and love are definitely not going to be the answer to our problems. It takes new structures to take on very complex problems as economics, politics, and environmental awareness. And realize that our country is not made of Bush clones, but that we have a very diverse culture with many who want to make a positive difference in the world. And many, many good people were killed yesterday. I wish you well on your work to make the world a more peaceful place. But please don't take any joy or satisfaction from this attack in the U.S., you know we will retaliate and it will only bring more bloodshed into the world. - JR / "A US Citizen" that's precisely my fear, JR. PLUS the terrifying fact that, even now, you still fail to see you've been 'punished' by those your government created in the first place, and is now about to galvanise into a world movement. what would YOU feel if american cities were being missile-attacked daily (and your citizens being grossly tortured etc etc) and finally your secret services (possibly by now reduced to loose underground sub-national networks) struck back against the country that backed, armed and bankrolled your enemy, using the very low level technology available to them? wouldn't you cheer? - inside maybe, lest the bully turned on you? and how would you perceive that enemy's logic if he then decided to declare war because he'd been attacked "for no reason and without warning from the shadows" and, say, landed troops in canada and mexico (whose leaders were by now too scared to publicly resist) etc etc? i just heard on TV that there are 13 million 'muslims' living in the west and they will "see an attack on islam as an attack on ourselves." whew. wake up america b4 you destroy us all! and one last thing: please tell your president to stop calling the terrorists "cowards". he can call them psychopaths, extremists and I'd agree with all of that (while maintaining that he's as bad or worse) but 20 educated young men gave their own lives for what they believed for chrissake! when did any brit, american or ozzie last do that?! # And if the superpowers' expensive bullets and bombs don't get you, then their economic policies will. Just think - the income of the richest 20% of the world's population is 75 times greater than the income of the poorest 20% (up from 30 times greater in 1960). Third world debt, enforced by the military might of the United States, Britain and other rich countries, is simply a racket to keep this inequality entrenched. $45 million flows daily from the poorest countries to the banks of the rich countries. These are the economies of the winner-takes-all capitalist mentality where millions die in a world of plenty through hunger and disease. SchNEWS / Brighton, UK # Both the Taliban and Osama bin Laden were US clients of course. I wonder if it's a case of chickens coming home to roost. Not to diminish the pain being suffered by the ordinary American, of course. Maybe it will wake them up, but I somehow doubt it. Chris.Stone / london # THURS FRI 15 # THAT FOURTH PLANE? Did it crash because of a passenger rebellion or was it shot down? Who else could shoot it down than the US army? They MUST know if they did. So why is it still being mentioned as possibly having been shot down? And who must have given the order to shoot down "innocent Americans?" Nobody yet knows the answers to these questions. # i dont give a fuck about yuppies in flames, nor the warmongers festering at the pentagon! but hey that's my point of view and I'm entitled! all today I've felt so freaking alienated by this perverted patriotism. Hey, BUSH got the U$A in this fucking mess and his response is to spill blood of it's gov't drones. Then be it i hate ALL government and religion, let them all fuck themselves to obliteration and leave me the fuck out! i knew such shit would hit the fan, it was only a matter of time. the writing was on the wall, but ameriKKKa is blinded by their own arrogance, the same type that's plundering our natural resources/ ecosystems and animals. yes, i am a GREEN@narCHist!... the environment and animals are my struggle not this spectacle! I hate the human race, i hate people (i hate ALL societies dealing in the business of fucking one another for $$$$ or gods). i cant feel sorry for assholes who were part of the fucking problem (which are ALL parties in involved). Give freedom to the animals, they are by far the MOST victimized of all history! SUPPORT THE Animal Liberation Front!!! Reich Black # vivian writes from bethlehem my dear friends, I express to you, my american friends, my profound sorrow and my closeness in prayer for all victims at this horrible and tragic moment. i really feel sorry for all the world, i feel sorry for us HUMAN beings. we are not human any more, we are animals!!!! i feel outraged and angry for this aggression against humanity!!! it is really horrible, the world that we are living in!!!! it is a jungle where animals eat each other for survival!!! under the bombing of the Bethlehem Area, palestinians were stuck in front of TV, watching the horrible inhuman attack while hearing the bombs falling around them! how would they behave??? Palestinians are confused and desperate. Palestinians are not celebrating the death of people. i have tears in my eyes now because of the horrible image you are getting from the news!!! it is wrong. i am begging you, my friends, not to believe what you see. Palestinians were celebrating the withdrawal of the Israeli army from the Palestinian city of jenin!!! that was it! we are being attacked every day... my best friends' house was bombarded just two minutes from where i stay in Bethlehem. believe me, i don't want to talk about my suffering as much as i want to talk about the suffering of all human beings around the globe. Palestinian groups denounced and condemned the attack ...reminding you that our struggle is against Occupation and slavery. America, as a super power, has duties toward weak nations asking for its help. WAKE UP americans!!!! we need your help!!! the oppressed, the hungry, the poor in this world are crying out for help!!!! President Bush ended his speech last night:: '''None of us will ever forget this day, yet we go forward to defend freedom and all that is good and just in our world." i hope so! hey my friends, i am with you ...we are together in spirit and soul.....we share the same values we share the same struggle .... i love you and pray for you. # Today the world's reflects on whether or not to pursue 'war'. The ignorance of the true timing frequency has created a feedback loop of materialism that can only react to its own karmic decay with greater and greater acts of terror -state sponsored and otherwise. This is not a time for revenge. This is a time to wake up. Wake up to what we are blindly chasing in the tunnel reality of global capitalism and what we are forgetting everyday- Gaia. Make every day a prayer for world peace. Let's unify all people under the banner of peace and biospheric rights and end the end game of history. Jihad vs Apocalypse is a good script for a Hollywood disaster movie, but a helluva way to run a planet. Lets' all pray together for world peace- everyday- forever. mark heley / glastonbury # Americans can no longer ignore what their government does abroad. http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,551036,00.html Forgive my anger at this...but imagine that you are Bruce Willis' bodyguard. Now imagine that you are paid remarkably well to keep Bruce Willis from being hurt. Now imagine that, while you're on the job, Bruce Willis gets beaten up and very badly hurt. Isn't this analogous to the role of the FBI and the CIA and the military at this time? These organizations exist solely to protect us from this sort of atrocity. Very simply, they have failed us. Moby, on his personal website # The Toppling of the Tower has shaken America's sense of invulnerability. No longer do Americans presume safety in an unsafe world. For some, that realization is an eye-opener, unsettling but necessary, in that a child's blissful unawareness has been replaced (at great cost) with an adult's more clear-eyed view of the world and its sometimes horrifying ways. For others, it spells the beginning of the end, in that they equated an illusion of safety with its reality and thus now feel their world is ending. Anon. # Hey Fraser, but your latest headline is some sick stuff. Unbelievable arrogance, yes - yours. And monumental insensitivity. And an appalling lack of discernment. I thought MDMA was supposed to make one more intelligent. Remove my name your list forthwith. Clark Heinrich PS--If you think I'm being patriotic or jingoistic, you are entirely mistaken. # PALESTINIANS CELEBRATE THE BOMBING? There they were, out on the streets, eating some cake and making funny faces for the camera., right? Well, they're images of Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait in 1991!!!!! A teacher of mine has videotapes recorded in 1991 with the very same images. He's been sending emails to CNN and newspapers, denouncing what I myself classify as a Crime Against Public Opinion. http://www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=63288 . # "World trade means world peace and consequently
Minoru Yamasaki, chief architect of the World Trade Center#the World Trade Center# buildings have a bigger purpose than just to provide room for tenants. The World Trade Center# is a living symbol of man's dedication to world peace ... The World Trade Center# should also, because of its importance, become a representation of man's belief in humanity, his need for individual dignity, his beliefs in the cooperation of men, and through cooperation, his ability to find greatness." # AMERICA IS GRIEVING. (AND THE THIRD WORLD IS -- WHAT? -- SNICKERING...?) Brummbaer's irreverent observations Everybody here is suddenly " Proud to be an American!" WHY?? Did we lately do something to be proud of? A bunch of sappy emotions get bundled into patriotism which is not just the last refuge of a scoundrel but also a cozy home for the self-righteous and the lynch-mobs. It doesn't need patriotism to have compassion for suffering people! Nor does compassion need religion! Meanwhile, in the past years this country developed a perverted grieving-habit. After Oklahoma, Princess Di, and the school-shootings it became extremely popular because grieving persons are treated like film-stars: interviews, talk-shows, cameras everywhere, if you are lucky -- a bestseller and if you are vain -- maybe they name a new law after you. Speaking as someone who has seen too many of his friends and lovers die, I think grieving is a private process -- I don't remember finding solace in an angry crowd but rather by staring at a wall for 3 hours. Imagine suddenly finding yourself surrounded by cameras and microphones and people yelling at you "Now, that you lost your brother how do you think life will go on for you...?" Leave the grieving people alone -- it's embarrassing to watch CNN -- I don't want to pry into other people's pain! "Freedom," said Bush in Sarasota, "was attacked this morning by a faceless coward." -- well spoken for a twelve year old -- but wrong: These people were willing to sacrifice their life for an ideal and you can call them insane but not cowards. Besides, half of the world -- in fact -- now has 18 new martyrs and heroes as role-models for further insanities in the future. I guess Bush just repeats Condoleeza's and Karen Hughes sound-bytes about the " Terrorist harboring nations..." which, of course, is a Carte Blanche to bomb anybody -- anywhere -- anytime! " ....we from Texas know how to take care of 'dem terrorists: we shoot 'em and then we shoot everybody that looks like a terrorist, and then everybody who knew a terrorist, and then they'll think twice before going on another suicide mission..." Then there is the odd usage of the word "war" in this context. My Webster defines war as something like "an armed conflict between nations or states". The current situation is defined as: "a group trying to coerce a government". By definition -- terrorism. I don't know if it is just Georgie's need to be melodramatic or if a little retro-insurance-bird whispered to him about war-damage being an "Act of War" and as such like an "Act of God" not covered by insurance. We will see if they either pay or not.( I hope whoever came up with this suspicion first didn't give 'em the idea!) Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton had to top it all with a sentence that usually is reserved for the diagnosis of the paranoid psychotic: " Everybody who's not for us, is against us." ...and when after Tom Daschle's speech they all broke out in song I wondered what kind of sick musical I had gotten lost in -- knowing I was listening to the richest choir on earth... Luckily, a wave of patriotism is flooding across the country so no one will take a look at the anti-missile program and it's new-found absurdity. 18 men with pocket-knifes -- a lot cheaper than anything we have. Me thinks this is the best thing that possibly could have happened to George Bush. An economy of lies and fuzzy math were just being brought to light when -- dammit, a crisis! Now they are all firmly behind George -- each nose right in the arse in front! " Dubya, who shall we attack? Tell us, who are the bad guys?..."How wonderfully bipartisan they all march in lock-step behind the infant king. America united! I better stop writing these unpatriotic opinions before somebody tracks me down and punches an American flag right through my heart. I'm really glad I don't look Arabian, or as it goes -- Jewish or Sikh -- or anybody with brown skin and a mustache, a beard or a turban. So, what did I learn? They tried to blow up the WTC seven years ago -- and now they did it -- which means they are consistent and predictable. Since they are not acting out of some capricious temperament, but because of sets of conditions which they perceive as hostile and life-threatening, even death is a welcome alternative. By understanding these conditions we would be enabled to predict such strikes and also improve our safety. It's not such a great mystery what drives extreme Muslim fundamentalists; we all know their mindset and have a pretty good idea about their support. But America has a blind spot there, because if you understand what drives an extreme Muslim fundamentalist then you also understand what drives an extreme Christian fundamentalist...and that would be a little too much understanding -- especially for Christian fundamentalists! In an E-mail from John Perry Barlow ( I had at least a dozen people CC'ed this B a R L o W F R i e N D Z-Reichstag fire-communiqué to me -- must be very popular) he writes: "Control freaks will dine on this day for the rest of our lives."--"Within a few hours, we will see beginning the most vigorous efforts to end what remains of freedom in America." He's right, it's not Pearl Harbor it's the Reichstag! And the last thing I learned is that we have too many missiles and not enough determined men with pocket-knives....or pens! Gordon Liddy can show you how to kill a man just with a pencil -- right into the heart! ( No more pencils on planes!) I will end with a suggested prayer for Ganeshian Aspirants according to Ganesh Baba and reported by Ira Cohen : "Dear God, if there is a God, please help me, if you can help me." Brummbaer / lying low or high in the us of a. |